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Feed In Tariffs

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Post by Hairyloon on 17th August 2010, 7:30 pm

So, what does anyone here know?

I know that if you are generating renewable energy and have an MCS* accredited installation, then you get paid for generating electricity, but I am a little stumped as to what the law requires your set-up to have before it qualifies for MCS* certification.

So far, apart from needing to be renewable (obviously), the certificate appears to certify that your installer has passed the certification process and installed a certified system.

I have looked here, here, here, and here, and I am still stumped.

Red tape. On a loop, Round and round and round...

(* or equivalent)
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Post by Compostwoman on 17th August 2010, 8:19 pm

Needs signing off by approved electician, plumber, HETAS certified person ( depending on what the system is, obviously) as well as installing by MCS person

Compostman knows about all this, as we were goingto install oour own PVs but the new FiT made it economically wort h while to have it installed by MCS approved person to get the FiT.

I will ask him about all this and come back to you

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Post by Wilhelm Von Rhomboid on 17th August 2010, 8:25 pm

Have you tried looking here, Loon?

http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/

Horse's mouth etc.

Are there any FITs that are covered by HETAS, CW? Not that I am aware of.
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Post by Compostwoman on 17th August 2010, 10:15 pm

Not yet AFAIK, but apparently wood chip boilers are next on the list....

which is why we are holding off on this just now! and they would then need certifying, in the same way as PVs need a spark to oversee, Solar Thermal needs a plumber etc..

Not sure what Ground or Air source Heat Pumps and Wind Turbines will need, a miner and an aeronautical engineer? Rolling Eyes

Should have added that you could answer all of HL's questions if I didn't come back with wisdom from Compostman's investigations. Sorry Wilhelm, that was thoughtless of me.


Last edited by Compostwoman on 17th August 2010, 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Hairyloon on 17th August 2010, 11:13 pm

Wilhelm Von Rhomboid wrote:http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/

Horse's mouth etc.
That is much like saying the Jobcentre is the horses mouth in respect of benefits legislation.

The statute is the horses mouth, MCS put their own take on it. How close that is to what the law actually requires I am yet to determine.
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Post by Hairyloon on 18th August 2010, 12:46 am

Compostwoman wrote:Needs signing off by approved electician, plumber, HETAS certified person ( depending on what the system is, obviously) as well as installing by MCS person
Actually, I think that is a requirement of the MCS as well.
Compostman knows about all this, as we were goingto install oour own PVs but the new FiT made it economically wort h while to have it installed by MCS approved person to get the FiT.
So how much more competent than Compostman do you think the MCS installer was?
I am guessing at "negligible" or possibly even "not as". And how much did it cost you have him do a job you are perfectly capable of yourself?

Yes, the FiTs will pay it off, but there should be the option for you to claim FiT for a competent DIY installation.

I am not completely sure there isn't one. I have had conflicting reports on how much of a PITA it is to become accredited. There is nothing to stop a DIYer from becoming certified, just that it won't be very cost effective for a single install.

A more difficult issue is for things like home built wind turbines. I won't say it is impossible for them to become certified, but it is certainly very challenging.
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Post by Compostwoman on 18th August 2010, 12:56 am

Installation was about £2 k more than if we had DIY, so yes was worth it financially ( have spreadsheet to demonstrate, if you are interested)

For CM to become accredited MCS, he would have had to do a full plumbing course ( several years even if you ARE a graduate IOP member, with many years experience in the PV ish field AND a certified Navitron Solar Thermal fitter, to boot.)

CM had worked on PV's, evaccuated solar thermal tubes etc and such like for 30 odd years and was a world leader in his (specialised) field, but that cuts no ice in the certification industry...

But if he was a plumber and had then done a short ish course, then yes he could be MCS certified.

So no, not cost effective for a single install, which is why we paid the premium.

I might add CM did a lot of the work, as much as the rules allow.....

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Post by Hairyloon on 18th August 2010, 1:14 am

Compostwoman wrote:For CM to become accredited MCS, he would have had to do a full plumbing course...
Oh. I thought you'd got photovoltaics.
Installation was about £2 k more than if we had DIY, ...
I might add CM did a lot of the work, as much as the rules allow.....
So that is £2k despite him doing most of the work?
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Post by Wilhelm Von Rhomboid on 18th August 2010, 8:43 am

There are people who say that MCS is a cosy little cartel that keeps prices artifically inflated and that the "MCS approved" equipment list is outdated and in some cases unsafe. Indeed that the MCS monopoly is not even legal.
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Post by Compostwoman on 18th August 2010, 11:14 am

Hairyloon wrote:
Compostwoman wrote:For CM to become accredited MCS, he would have had to do a full plumbing course...
Oh. I thought you'd got photovoltaics.
Installation was about £2 k more than if we had DIY, ...
I might add CM did a lot of the work, as much as the rules allow.....
So that is £2k despite him doing most of the work?

Didn't say "most ofthe work" HL,

Plumber is one of the approved qualifications to fit PVs and/or Solar Thermal.

You still need an Electrician to wire it up as well.

Electrician is another approved qualification

I should perhaps have said CM would have had to qualify as either an Electrican or a Plumber. Which would take a couple of years, despite his various qualifications and experience.

Paying £2K over DIY costs still gives us a good profit, because we get the FiT, rather than saving the 2 K, but not getting the FiT.

Actually quite a cheap deal.

But yes, would have been beter still to get FiT AND have DIY'ed it.

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Post by Hairyloon on 18th August 2010, 11:20 am

Wilhelm Von Rhomboid wrote:There are people who say that MCS is a cosy little cartel that keeps prices artifically inflated and that the "MCS approved" equipment list is outdated and in some cases unsafe. Indeed that the MCS monopoly is not even legal.
There are people who say the moon landings were faked. Are the people to whom you refer credible?

I had been thinking about the "*or equivalent" that I mentioned earlier, but I had assumed it was one of my famously silly ideas.
Perhaps it isn't. :?
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Post by Compostwoman on 18th August 2010, 11:59 am

CM has now looked at the rules and you no longer need to be a certified competant person any more to become MCS approved.

You previously had to be certified ( ie qualified) in a building trade ( plumber, electrician) to get the MCS certification, but NOW, you can become a "competant person" by doing an MCS cert course and have lots of appropriate paperwork for your business ( H and S stuff, buisiness plans, insurance, bank accout etc etc - the usual stuff to show you are a "proper" business...)

but you don't now HAVE to be a plumber etc...to get the MCS

This has changed since March/April, when he looked at it last.

So...he could get this IF he were prerpared to pay for an MCS course and make his business have all the appropriate paperwork to do so.


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Post by Wilhelm Von Rhomboid on 18th August 2010, 1:58 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
Wilhelm Von Rhomboid wrote:There are people who say that MCS is a cosy little cartel that keeps prices artifically inflated and that the "MCS approved" equipment list is outdated and in some cases unsafe. Indeed that the MCS monopoly is not even legal.
There are people who say the moon landings were faked. Are the people to whom you refer credible?


Depends on your point of view. If you are an MCS member, no they are charlatans and moaners. If you have anything to do with renewables and are not in the MCS then yes they are.

Quite why solar systems cost twice as much in the UK as in Germany say, and the 'approved technology' is several years behind the cutting edge is a bit of a mystery if you take out the MCS markups.

Usually quite vigorous discussions on this subject on Moneysavingexpert.com
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Post by Hairyloon on 18th August 2010, 9:31 pm

If you are right, then there is definitely a need for an "*or equivalent".

Which brings me back to the original question: what standards does the law require?

I will have a rummage on moneysavingexpert next time I'm at a computer... Might not be for a few days.
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Post by Hairyloon on 22nd August 2010, 12:41 pm

Wilhelm Von Rhomboid wrote:Usually quite vigorous discussions on this subject on Moneysavingexpert.com
May I trouble you for a specific reference?
I've had a little rummage on their forum, and it seems a bit needle and haystack. :?
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